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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Hi Ofer,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I tend to agree with all but the first one. I think that the WAFEC should help customers to choose the right WAF for their environment. If we neglect options like integration with other network devices/ security
 solutions or capabilities that effect the performance of a WAF or the application behind a WAF then we will damage the original goal.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Over the recent years, WAFs pretty much stopped being another point solution in the network and most toady offer additional services and features that contribute to their adoption.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Let me give you an example that we see all the time: Security team asks for a WAF, business owners and the network team say that a WAF will hurt the customer experience as it will add latency, at that point,
 if the security team claims that the WAF has a built in fast cache that actually offloads work from the web server and contributes to the user experience then they may be able to persuade the network team and business owners and get a WAF installed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">By hiding these “non-WAF” related features from WAFEC we make WAFEC less attractive as it will require much more additional research to find the right solution to a specific environment/ problem.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Ido<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> wasc-wafec-bounces@lists.webappsec.org [mailto:wasc-wafec-bounces@lists.webappsec.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ofer Shezaf<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 06, 2012 2:39 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> wasc-wafec@lists.webappsec.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WASC-WAFEC] What should we change in WAFEC 2.0?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Since you are all very quiet, I understand that WAFEC 2 will solve my pain and needs only
</span><span style="font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D">J</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">To that end, let me start with summarizing issues raised in the previous discussions on the mailing list (which I actually went and read…).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">No specific order intended. This is what you wrote, though I must say I think it captures well the issues I am aware of and that generally speaking I agree with most.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">      
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><b><u><span style="color:#1F497D">Remove non WAF related criteria</span></u></b><span style="color:#1F497D"> for example around application delivery.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:#1F497D">While integrating a WAF with other solutions is compelling to the client, it is not directly about WAFs and is also unbounded. This does present the challenge deciding what is
 relevant to a WAF in border cases such as an SSO functionality <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">      
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><b><u><span style="color:#1F497D">Update the list of threats covered</span></u></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">      
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><b><u><span style="color:#1F497D">Focus on customer use cases rather than how a WAF operates</span></u></b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:#1F497D">I think there was some hidden controversy here as I read opinions to focus on “technical” which I take to be opposite. I personally very much agree with this comment.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">4.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">      
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><b><u><span style="color:#1F497D">Not just a laundry list</span></u></b><span style="color:#1F497D"> –
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:#1F497D">Classify the importance of requirements. I believe that a minimal approach specifying several levels, for example: “mandatory”, “important”, “nice to have” and “site specific”.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:#1F497D">Another complementing idea is to classify requirements as “security”/”functionality”/”performance” etc. letting the user determine if he prefers security over functionality etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:#1F497D">This would also provide the minimum requirements for a solution to be a WAF – the “mandatory” requirements.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:#1F497D">Regarding site specific requirements, it should be easy to the user to determine his own requirements, for example using a decision tree.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><b><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">5.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">      
</span></span></span></b><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><b><u><span style="color:#1F497D">The “ethical” questions:<o:p></o:p></span></u></b></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:#1F497D">How to address alternative solutions such as fixing the code?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">6.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">      
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><b><u><span style="color:#1F497D">Outreach</span></u></b><span style="color:#1F497D"> – beyond the document<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:#1F497D">Approaching NSS, ICSA and the likes to use WAFEC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:#1F497D">Release process, PR etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-family:Symbol;color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">·<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">        
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:#1F497D">Managing a list of public references to WAFEC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:#1F497D">Promote actual evaluations data sharing - No more spreadsheets.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">7.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">      
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:#1F497D">Specific notes on V1, I have collected for further work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">A major question raised with opinions on both sides was a re-write vs. an update. I do think that understanding the requirements should direct that. Some issues raised which directly relate to that are:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">      
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:#1F497D">Is the order of sections correct?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph" style="text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo4"><![if !supportLists]><span style="color:#1F497D"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">      
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span><span style="color:#1F497D">Incorporating the German OWASP chapter work on the same subject:
</span><span style="color:black"><a href="http://www.owasp.org/index.php/Best_Practices:_Web_Application_Firewalls">http://www.owasp.org/index.php/Best_Practices:_Web_Application_Firewalls</a></span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">~ Ofer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Ofer Shezaf
<a href="mailto:[mailto:ofer@shezaf.com]">[mailto:ofer@shezaf.com]</a> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 31, 2012 1:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:wasc-wafec@lists.webappsec.org">wasc-wafec@lists.webappsec.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> WAFEC 2.0 phase 1: exploratory discussion (deadline: June 14th)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks to all who volunteered to contribute to this project going forward (and those who didn’t – you still can!)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I would like to boot up the project with a short exploratory phase identifying why we need a new release and therefore what we need in it.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">To guide the discussion, I think that the reasons we need v2 fall into two categories:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:45.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo6;vertical-align:middle">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">     
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span>Things that have changed - new (or obsolete) deployment modes, techniques, attacks, or even something new altogether.<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:45.0pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo6;vertical-align:middle">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">     
</span></span></span><![endif]><span dir="LTR"></span>Issues we discovered in WAFEC over the years. Some issues I encountered are identifying specific requirements and sorting out what’s important and what’s not.<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="vertical-align:middle"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="vertical-align:middle">From this discussion I hope to derive a mission statement, a tasks list and therefore a schedule for the V2 project. All those will be the next phase.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="vertical-align:middle"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="vertical-align:middle"><b>I would give this phase two weeks (until June 14<sup>th</sup>), however I am on vacation from the 9<sup>th</sup>, so would accept input but not join the discussion on the last few days.<o:p></o:p></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="vertical-align:middle"><b><o:p> </o:p></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="vertical-align:middle">I would also want to thank Thorsten and Mirko for leading the project until now. I do hope that I will get from you all more cooperation than they did! I would also want to extend a personal apology to Thorsten
 and Mirko as the leader switch was not well coordinated. Thorsten and I discussed this over the last week and he gracefully agreed to let me give a try to leading this project forward.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you all!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">~ Ofer<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ofer Shezaf<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">[+972-54-4431119; <a href="mailto:ofer@shezaf.com">
ofer@shezaf.com</a>, <a href="http://www.shezaf.com">www.shezaf.com</a>]<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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